Criticism of Microsoft

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Criticism of Microsoft has followed various aspects of its products and business practices. Issues with ease of use, stability, and security of the company's software are common targets for critics. In the 2000s, a number of malware attacks have targeted security flaws in Microsoft Windows and other programs. Microsoft is also accused of locking vendors and consumers into their products, and of not following and complying with existing standards in its software.[1] Total cost of ownership comparisons of Linux as well as Mac OS X to Windows are a continuous point of debate.[citation needed]

The company has been in numerous lawsuits by several governments and other companies for unlawful monopolistic practices. In 2004, the European Union found Microsoft guilty in the European Union Microsoft competition case. Additionally, Microsoft's EULA for some of its programs is often criticized as being too restrictive[who?].


[edit] Product criticism

[edit] Business practices

[edit] Vendor lock-in

From its inception, Microsoft defined itself as a platform company and understood the importance of attracting third-party programmers. It did so by providing development tools, training, access to proprietary APIs in early versions, and partner programs. The solutions and plugins built by third-party programmers in turn led to more Microsoft sales.[citation needed] Although the resulting ubiquity of Microsoft software allows a user to benefit from network effects, critics decry what they consider to be an "embrace, extend and extinguish" strategy by Microsoft of adding proprietary features to open standards, thereby using its market dominance to gain de facto ownership of standards "extended" in this way.[2][3][4][5] For example, the large installation base of Microsoft Word makes Word files the de facto standard word-processor format[citation needed]. In addition, more potential employees have training in Microsoft Office than on competing products[citation needed]. Hence using Office can result in reduced training requirements[citation needed], especially in the case of temporary employment. However, the file formats of Word and other programs were not an open standard, and even the introduction of the Ecma International standardized Office Open XML format is sometimes criticized as not being as open as the OpenDocument format[who?].

Microsoft software is also presented as a "safe" choice for IT managers purchasing software systems. In an internal memo for senior management Microsoft's head of C++ development, Aaron Contorer, stated:[6]

The Windows API is so broad, so deep, and so functional that most Independent Software Vendors would be crazy not to use it. And it is so deeply embedded in the source code of many Windows apps that there is a huge switching cost to using a different operating system instead... It is this switching cost that has given the customers the patience to stick with Windows through all our mistakes, our buggy drivers, our high TCO (total cost of ownership), our lack of a sexy vision at times, and many other difficulties [...] Customers constantly evaluate other desktop platforms, [but] it would be so much work to move over that they hope we just improve Windows rather than force them to move. In short, without this exclusive franchise called the Windows API, we would have been dead a long time ago.

[edit] Copyright enforcement

One of the earliest criticisms of Microsoft stemmed from its decision to market its software independently of the hardware it ran on by asserting copyright to the software and licensing it under terms similar to music.[citation needed]Software copyright was a legal novelty at the time, and controversial.[citation needed] When Microsoft discovered that its first product, Altair BASIC, was subject to widespread illegal copying, Microsoft founder Bill Gates wrote an Open Letter to Hobbyists that openly accused many hobbyists of stealing software. Gates's letter provoked many responses, with some hobbyists objecting to the broad accusation, and others supporting the principle of compensation.[7] This disagreement over whether software should be proprietary continues into the present day under the banner of the free software movement, with Microsoft characterizing free software released under the terms of the GPL as being "potentially viral"[8] and the GNU General Public License itself as a "viral license" which "infects" proprietary software and forces its developer to have to release proprietary source to the public.[9]

The Halloween documents, internal Microsoft memos which were leaked to the open source community beginning in 1998, indicate that some Microsoft employees perceive "open source" software — in particular, Linux — as a growing long-term threat to Microsoft's position in the software industry. The Halloween documents acknowledged that parts of Linux are superior to the versions of Microsoft Windows available at the time, and outlined a strategy of "de-commoditize[ing] protocols & applications."[10][2][3][4][5] Microsoft stated in its 2006 Annual Report that it was a defendant in at least 35 patent infringement lawsuits.[11] The company's litigation expenses for April 2004 through March 2007 exceed $4.3 billion: over $4 billion in payouts, plus $300 million in legal fees.[12]

Another concern of critics is that Microsoft may be using the distribution of shared source software to harvest names of developers who have been exposed to Microsoft code, as some believe that these developers could someday be the target of lawsuits if they were ever to participate in the development of competing products. This issue is addressed in published papers from several organizations including the American Bar Association and the Open Source Initiative.[13][14]

Starting in the 1990s, Microsoft was accused of maintaining "hidden" or "secret" APIs: interfaces to its operating system software that it deliberately keeps undocumented to gain a competitive advantage in its application software products.[15] Microsoft employees have consistently denied this;[16][17] they claim that application developers inside and outside Microsoft routinely reverse-engineered DOS and 16-bit versions of Windows without any inside help, creating legacy support problems that far exceeded any alleged benefit to Microsoft.[18][19][20] In response to court orders, Microsoft has published interfaces between components of its operating system software, including components like Internet Explorer, Active Directory, and Windows Media that sell as part of Windows but compete with application software.

[edit] Licensing agreements

A common complaint[21][22] comes from those who want to purchase a computer without a copy of Windows pre-installed because they intend to use another operating system such as Linux or BSD instead. Apple Inc. has always marketed home computers with their own non-Microsoft but proprietary operating system. More recently many other computer manufacturers have begun to offer specific product ranges with Linux pre-installed. These include Lenovo,[23][24] Dell,[25] Acer,[26] MSI,[27] Intel[28] and others. Nonetheless, all large computer vendors continue to bundle Microsoft Windows with the majority of the personal computers in their ranges. The Findings of Fact in the United States Microsoft antitrust case established that "One of the ways Microsoft combats piracy is by advising OEMs that they will be charged a higher price for Windows unless they drastically limit the number of PCs that they sell without an operating system pre-installed. In 1998, all major OEMs agreed to this restriction."[29] This has been called the "Windows tax" or "Microsoft tax".[30][31][32][33]

The 2002 settlement in the United States Microsoft antitrust case prohibits Microsoft from giving special prices to select vendors, which resulted in the price list becoming public and based on volume sold, with discounts for features provided by the distributor. These features can include the provision of a Firewire port or the placement of a Microsoft logo sticker on the computer. Discounts such as these are a source of controversy for both Microsoft and Intel.

This problem can be avoided by purchasing a computer without Windows or by buying a white box machine. Finding such a system from a major OEM may prove challenging however; while some vendors sell certain models bundled with Linux, these may be limited to high-end workstations and enterprise servers, or budget, domestic models. Dell sells Linux preinstalled on home systems, but it is only offered on a limited number of models and configurations and Dell also explicitly warns prospective buyers that "The main thing to note is that when you choose open source you don’t get a Windows operating system."[34]. Some smaller OEMs and larger retail chains such as system76 have taken advantage of the paucity of non-Windows offerings by major suppliers by specializing in Linux-based systems. Some Linux distributors also run 'partnership' programs to endorse suppliers of machines with their system preinstalled.[35]

An end user can return Windows for a refund by refusing to agree to the Microsoft End User License Agreement. The Microsoft EULA specifically mentions that if you do not agree to the license you can return the product for a full refund. Vendors may have a policy of charging for the provision of the refund such that the balance received by the customer is as low as $10,[36] despite this being a violation of consumer protection law in many countries.[36][37] A certain number of customers were refunded[38] of their Windows licence, whether using the EULA or not, whether through an agreement or through court.

[edit] Acquisitions

Microsoft has acquired several companies and products during its history, including some that competed with earlier Microsoft products.[39] Such acquired assets include MS-DOS, Microsoft FrontPage, WebTV (now MSN TV), Hotmail, Direct3D, Internet Explorer, Microsoft Visio, and Windows Defender. Microsoft rebrands the primary products of the companies it acquires, and in many cases offers them for free or bundles them with their operating system. Former Sun Microsystems chief executive Scott McNealy occasionally remarked that Microsoft never produced technology except by buying it: "Name one thing they've ever invented on their own? Seriously, name one! If you think of any, send me an e-mail, and I'll research it to find out who they bought it from.... R&D [research and development] and M&A [mergers and acquisitions] are the same thing over there."[40]

An acquisition nearly took place in 1995 when Microsoft announced its intent to conduct a hostile takeover of Intuit, Inc., the maker of Quicken, which competed with its own product Microsoft Money. After a campaign by attorney Gary Reback and complaints to the Federal Trade Commission, Microsoft eventually dropped the takeover plans.[41]

[edit] Litigation

Microsoft's market dominance and business practices have attracted widespread resentment, which is not necessarily restricted to the company's competitors. In a 2003 publication, Dan Geer argued the prevalence of Microsoft products has resulted in a monoculture which is dangerously easy for viruses to exploit.[42] However, numerous defences have been waged against this argument, including the idea that if machines can be patched from the threats it has much less of an effect.[43]

[edit] Labor practices

The entrance to Microsoft's Redmond campus

While Microsoft has historically treated employees very well,[44] Microsoft has received several complaints about their treatment of employees. This includes the use of permatemp employees (employees employed for years as "temporary," and therefore without medical benefits), use of forced retention tactics, where departing employees would be sued to prevent departure, as well as more traditional cost-saving measures, ranging from cutting medical benefits, to not providing towels in company locker rooms.[45]

Historically, Microsoft has also been accused of overworking employees, in many cases, leading to burnout within just a few years of joining the company. The company is often referred to as a "Velvet Sweatshop", a term which originated in a Seattle Times article in 1989,[46] and later became used to describe the company by some of Microsoft's own employees.[47] The focus of the idea is that Microsoft provides nearly everything for its employees in a convenient place, but in turn overworks them to a point where it would be bad for their (possibly long-term) health. For example, the kitchenettes have free beverages and many buildings include exercise rooms and showers. However, the accusation is that they try to keep employees at the company for unreasonably long hours and working too much. This is detailed in several books about Microsoft, including "Hard Drive: Bill Gates and the Making of the Microsoft Empire."

A (US) state lawsuit was brought against Microsoft in 1992 representing 8,558 current and former employees that had been classified as "temporary" and "freelance", and became known as "Vizcaino v. Microsoft". In 1993, the suit became a US Federal Class Action in the United States District Court Western District Of Washington At Seattle as No. C93-178C. The Final Settlement[48] came in 2005. The case was decided on the (IRS-defined) basis that such "permatemps" had their jobs defined by Microsoft, worked alongside regular employees doing the same work, and worked for long terms. After a series of court setbacks including 3 reversals on appeal, Microsoft settled the suit for about US $92.730 million.

A side effect of the "permatemp" lawsuit is that now contract employees are prevented from participating in team morale events and other activities that could be construed as making them "employees". They are also limited to one year contracts and must leave after that time for 100 days before returning under contract.

Microsoft is the largest American corporate user of H-1B guest worker visas and has joined other large technology companies like Google, recently lobbied for looser H1-B visa restrictions.[49][50][51]

[edit] Advertising and public relations

Microsoft contributes money to several think tanks, including the American Enterprise Institute, the Center for Strategic and International Studies, the Heritage Foundation, the Cato Institute and the Alexis de Tocqueville Institution. Critics allege that while giving the appearance of neutral third parties these organizations work to undermine Microsoft's competitors, for example stating "open-source software may offer [a] target for terrorists".[52][53][54]

In August 2004, the Advertising Standards Authority (ASA) of the United Kingdom ordered Microsoft to stop a run of print ads that claimed that the total cost of ownership of Linux servers was ten times that of Windows Server 2003. The comparison included the cost of hardware, and put Linux at a disadvantage by installing it on more expensive but poorer-performing hardware compared to that used for Windows.[55][56]

On January 24, 2007, Rick Jelliffe revealed on his blog that a Microsoft employee offered to pay him to make corrections in Wikipedia articles concerning Office Open XML. Microsoft spokesperson Catherine Brooker expressed the belief that the article had been "heavily written" by IBM employees who supported the rival OpenDocument format, though she provided no specific evidence. Internet entrepreneur and Wikimedia founder Jimmy Wales described Microsoft's offer as unethical.[57]

[edit] Blacklisting of journalists

In the 1980s, the company was notorious for keeping Nixonian lists regarding journalists on a whiteboard showing which were "Okay," "Sketchy," or "Needs work." Some believed that those in the last category would be the target of the company in an effort to get them fired. I myself was on a Microsoft blacklist for some totally unknown reason and was not allowed any information about an early version of Windows, apparently because I was considered uncooperative. I only found out about this because of documents unearthed during the discovery process of the Comes v. Microsoft lawsuit in Iowa. [...] threats from the company did manage to get me removed as a licensed columnist in PC Magazine Italy.

[I was] blacklisted by Microsoft for writing a story based on an internal memo penned by Mark Lucovsky (now with Google, ironically) that acknowledged 63,000 bugs were still left in Windows 2000 when the product [was] shipped. I was barred from executive interviews at the Windows 2000 launch as a result of my story. My "punishment" lasted for a few years. Certain Windows execs refused to speak to me or meet with me for ages because of that story. I believed, and still believe, that I was just doing my job as a reporter.

[edit] Censorship in mainland China

Microsoft (along with Google, Yahoo, Cisco, AOL, Skype, and other companies) has cooperated with the Chinese government in implementing a system of Internet censorship.[60] Human rights advocates such as Human Rights Watch and media groups such as Reporters Without Borders criticized the companies, noting for example that it is "ironic that companies whose existence depends on freedom of information and expression have taken on the role of censor."[61]

[edit] Worker productivity software

Microsoft has also come under criticism for developing software capable of analyzing the output of remote sensors in order to measure the competence and productivity of workers based on their physical responses.[62]

[edit] Gay reference controversy

Microsoft has recently come under some criticism for its attitude to homosexuality and Xbox Live. Users may not use the string "gay" in a gamertag (even legitimately, for example as part of a surname), or refer to homosexuality in their profile (including self-identifying as such), as the company considers this "content of a sexual nature" or "offensive" to other users and therefore unsuitable for the service.[1][2][3] After banning 'Teresa', a lesbian gamer who had been harassed by other users for being a homosexual, this policy gained wide condemnation. A senior Xbox Live team member has clarified its policy, stating that "Expression of any sexual orientation [...] is not allowed in gamertags" but that they are "examining how we can provide it in a way that wont get misused".[4]

[edit] See also

General mechanisms at work:

Specific cases:

[edit] References

  • Charles, John. "Indecent proposal? Doing Business With Microsoft". IEEE Software. January/February 1998. pp. 113-117.
  • Clark, Jim with Owen Edwards. Netscape Time: The Making of the Billion Dollar Start-up That Took on Microsoft. New York, Saint Martin's Press, 1999
  • Cusumano, Michael A.; Selby, Richard W. Microsoft Secrets: How the World's Most Powerful Software Company Creates Technology, Shapes Markets and Manages People. New York: Free Press, 1995.
  • Edstrom, Jennifer; Eller, Marlin. Barbarians Led by Bill Gates: Microsoft from inside: How the World's Richest Corporation Wields its Power. N.Y. Holt, 1998.
  • Goldman Rohm, Wendy (September 1998). The Microsoft File: the secret case against Bill Gates. New York, NY 10022: Times Books. ISBN 0-8129-2716-8. 
  • Lemos, Robert. (2003). U.S. funds study of tech monocultures. Retrieved December 20, 2003, from
  • Moody, Fred. I Sing the Body Electronic: A Year With Microsoft on the Multimedia Frontier. New York: Viking, 1995.
  • National Science Foundation. (2003). Taking Cues from Mother Nature to Foil Cyber Attacks. Retrieved December 20, 2003, from
  • Bozman, Jean; Gillen, Al; Kolodgy, Charles; Kusnetzky, Dan; Perry, Randy; & Shiang, David (October 2002). "Windows 2000 Versus Linux in Enterprise Computing: An assessment of business value for selected workloads". IDC, sponsored by Microsoft Corporation. White paper.
  • In an article published by BusinessWeek, Dan Kunsnetzky suggests that study was stacked against Linux.
  • Groklaw portal on Microsoft litigation Microsoft Litigation * Matthew Newman "Microsoft Fined Record EU899 Million by EU Regulator (Update1)". Bloomberg, February 27, 2008
  • "EU says could have fined Microsoft up to 1.5 bln eur over antitrust decision". CNNMoney, February 27, 2008
  • "Microsoft fined 899 mln eur by EU for failure to comply with ruling UPDATE". CNNMoney, February 27, 2008
  • Reporting by David Lawsky; Editing by Dale Hudson "EU fines Microsoft record $1.35 billion". Reuters, February 27, 2008
  • "EU fines Microsoft record $1.3 billion". CNNMoney, February 27, 2008
  • Parmy Olson "Q&A: Microsoft's Multi-Billion Dollar EU Fine"., February 27, 2008
  • Leo Cendrowicz "EC fines Microsoft a record $1.4 bil". The Hollywood Reporter, February 27, 2008
  • Mike Ricciut "EU slaps Microsoft with $1.35 billion fine". CNet News, February 27, 2008
  • "Microsoft fined 899 mln eur by EU for failure to comply with ruling UPDATE". CNNMoney, February 27, 2008
  • Rory Watson "Microsoft hit by €899m fine for failure to comply with EU ruling". Times, February 27, 2008
  • "EU hits Microsoft with record 899 million euro anti-trust fine". AFP, February 27, 2008
  • Benjamin J. Romano "In the bad timing category: EU fine rains on Microsoft launch parade". The Seattle Times, February 27, 2008
  • Aoife white "Record EU Fine for Microsoft". The Associated Press, February 27, 2008
  • Stephen Castle "EU fine sends message to Microsoft and others". International Herald Tribune, February 27, 2008
  • Damon Poeter "EU Slams Microsoft With Record $1.35 Billion Fine". Channelweb Network, February 27, 2008
  • Ina Fried "Ballmer on EU, Yahoo". CNet News, February 27, 2008
  • David Prosser "Microsoft fined record €899m by EU over market abuse". The Independent, February 28, 2008

[edit] Footnotes

  1. ^ "Writing history with Microsoft's Office lock-in". 
  2. ^ a b Rodger, Will (1998-11-08). "Intel exec: MS wanted to 'extend, embrace and extinguish' competition". ZDNet. Retrieved on 2007-02-05. 
  3. ^ a b "Expert Testimony of Ronald Alepin in Comes v. Microsoft - Embrace, Extend, Extinguish". Groklaw. 2007-01-08. Retrieved on 2007-02-05. 
  4. ^ a b Erickson, Jonathan (2001-07-22). "Embrace, Extend, Extinguish: Three Strikes And You're Out". Dr. Dobb's Portal. Retrieved on 2007-02-05. 
  5. ^ a b Livingston, Brian (2000-05-15). "Is Microsoft's change in Kerberos security a form of 'embrace, extend, extinguish'?". InfoWorld. Retrieved on 2007-02-05. 
  6. ^ "EU report takes Microsoft to task". Retrieved on 2006-06-06. 
  7. ^ Gates, Bill (April 1976). "A Second and Final Letter". Computer Notes. Retrieved on 2007-10-09. 
  8. ^ "Open source terror stalks Microsoft's lawyers". 
  9. ^ "The EULA, the GPL and the Wisdom of Fortune Cookies". 
  10. ^ Halloween Document 8
  11. ^ MSFT Annual Report 2006
  12. ^ "Patent Payouts". Retrieved on 2007-05-19. 
  13. ^ "Open Source Software - A Legal Framework (PDF format)". 
  14. ^ "Shared Source: A Dangerous Virus". 
  15. ^ Consumer Federation of America and Consumers Union (2005-01-25) (PDF). Competitive Processes, Anticompetitive Practices and Consumer Harm in the Software Industry. Retrieved on 2008-04-13.  (public comment on US v. Microsoft under the Tunney Act)
  16. ^ Henderson, Ken (2003). The Guru's Guide to SQL Server Architecture and Internals. Addison-Wesley. ISBN 0-201-70047-6. Retrieved on 2006-11-21. "Contrary to what some people believed at the time, SQL Server 6.5 made no use of hidden APIs to reach the scalability levels it achieved." 
  17. ^ Pratley, Chris (2004-04-28). "Word Myths and Feedback". Chris Pratley's OneNote Blog. Retrieved on 2006-11-21. "I also detected another old saw about hidden advantages or undocumented APIs that somehow made Word better than competing apps. The reality on this is so counter to the conspiracy it is astounding. The Office team barely talks to the Windows team." 
  18. ^ Chen, Raymond. ""What about BOZOSLIVEHERE and TABTHETEXTOUTFORWIMPS?". The Old New Thing. Retrieved on 2007-09-18. 
  19. ^ Chen, Raymond. The Old New Thing.
  20. ^ Spolsky, Joel. Joel on Software.
  21. ^ "Buying without Windows-Don't want Windows?". Best Price Computers Ltd. February 2007. Retrieved on 2008-11-24. 
  22. ^ Desmond, Michael (May 31, 2005). "Computing Without Windows". PC World Communications, Inc.. Retrieved on 2008-11-24. 
  23. ^ Ian Bruce (6 August 2007). "Lenovo and Novell To Offer Linux Preload on ThinkPad Notebooks". Press Release. Novell, Inc.. Retrieved on 2008-08-03. 
  24. ^ Sharon Gaudin (September 11, 2008). "Lenovo halts online sales of Linux-based PCs". Computerworld Inc.. "The PC maker said yesterday that it will no longer take online orders for computers pre-loaded with any flavor of Linux. Ray Gorman, a spokesman for the company, said that it will continue offering such machines only through its own or partner direct sales teams. "Our commitment to Linux has not changed," said Gorman... Gorman said the most orders for pre-loaded Linux software had come through their sales teams or business partners... He also noted that Lenovo is slated to deliver Linux-based servers and IdeaPad netbook models in September and October, respectively." 
  25. ^ "Dell and Linux". Dell Inc. 2008. Retrieved on 2008-08-03. 
  26. ^ Acer Aspire one (Linux)
  27. ^ MSI Wind NB-Linux
  28. ^ Intel ClassmatePC
  29. ^ U.S. v. Microsoft: Court's Findings of Fact
  30. ^ Dell goes Ubuntu; "Windows tax" is $50 according to pricing
  31. ^ Cost of Windows tax calculated
  32. ^ Dell customer gets Windows refund
  33. ^ How to get a Windows tax refund
  34. ^ Dell Home & Home Office | Ubuntu
  35. ^ "Find Ubuntu partners around the world". Ubuntu Partners. Canonical Ltd. Retrieved on 2008-08-03. 
  36. ^ a b Steve Oualline (30 July 2003). "Getting a Windows Refund in California Small Claims Court". Linux Journal. Retrieved on 2008-08-03. "Thanks to good records and a Small Claims judge, Steve Oualline got a $199 refund for his unused copy of Microsoft Windows XP. One Linux user's story shows how to establish a good refund case." 
  37. ^ AFUL: PC-Windows bundling, first hearing at TGI in Paris: UFC Que Choisir against Darty
  38. ^ Worldwide list of successful Windows refunds
  39. ^ "Microsoft's list of companies it has acquired". 
  40. ^ Burrows, Peter (2001-11-19). "Q&A with Scott McNealy". Businessweek. Retrieved on 2007-04-19. 
  41. ^ Saveri, Gabrielle (1997-08-25). "GARY REBACK—Attorney, Wilson Sonsini Goodrich & Rosati". Businessweek. Retrieved on 2007-04-19. 
  42. ^ draft 5
  43. ^ "Does Windows Endanger Society?". 
  44. ^ The UK's best tech employers, ZDNet
  45. ^ "Troubling Exits At Microsoft". 
  46. ^ Andrews, Paul (23 April 1989). "A 'Velvet Sweatshop' or a High-Tech Heaven?". The Seattle Times. 
  47. ^ "Editor's note, MSJ August 1997". Retrieved on September 27 2005. 
  48. ^ "Vizcaino Final Settlement". 
  49. ^ Gates warns on US immigration curbs
  50. ^ Senators: Companies with "mass layoffs" shouldn't hire more foreign workers
  51. ^ How to Keep America Competitive, by Bill Gates
  52. ^ "Linux makes a run for government". 
  53. ^ "Report on Linux origins falls at the starting gate".,39020390,39155268,00.htm. 
  54. ^ "Microsoft's All-Out Counterattack". 
  55. ^ "Non-broadcast Adjudication". Retrieved on 2006-03-31. 
  56. ^ "Microsoft Ordered to Pull Anti-Linux Ad". Retrieved on 2006-03-31. 
  57. ^ "Microsoft offers cash for Wikipedia edit". Retrieved on 2006-01-24. 
  58. ^ Microsoft, the Spandex Granny - Columns by PC Magazine
  59. ^ Mary Jo Foley: The Exit Interview - Robert McLaws: Windows Vista Edition
  60. ^ "Corporate Complicity in Chinese Internet Censorship". Retrieved on 2006-11-23. 
  61. ^ "China: Internet Companies Aid Censorship". Retrieved on 2007-02-06. 
  62. ^ Times online Article: Microsoft seeks patent for office 'spy' software Alexi Mostrous and David Brown January 16, 2008

[edit] External links

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